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FAQ’s
Questions have been submitted from customers of the Ground Control Manual.
See page 92 in Section 1 in the Ground Control Manual for more information.
Question #1 – Riding Bareback

Question or Description of Concern: "Once I have gone through the round pen steps and I am to the point where I can put the saddle on his back, and I am able to climb on him, would my horse also be considered  to be trained to take me bareback on him? If not, what additional training would I need to do to be able to ride him bareback?"

Ground Control Lessons Horse has been Exposed To:
"All the round pen 20 steps."

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

There are a few things that you need to consider. Bareback riding can be a sack out issue. The pressure of your body is a different feeling to the horse than a saddle pad, saddle and girth. I recommend that you do as much sack out work as possible. Create new sensations for the horse to experience - make a list and introduce them gradually.  Follow the same format as the Lesson 2, Lesson 11 and Lesson E (ear clipping).

Before getting on your horse, he should know how to respond to the bit. This is essential when you are mounted so that you have control - Lessons 13, 14, 16, 17, 22, 23, 24, 25 (especially Lesson 25 - connecting the rein to the hip). Whether riding with or without a saddle, you need this control with the bridle.

If:

·        you have successfully mounted and dismounted many times with the horse calm and relaxed and 

·        you have adequate control with the bridle, you should feel comfortable with mounting and dismounting bareback. Although I recommend that you not be in a hurry to ride bareback at this point. Get your horse accustomed to many hours of you being on his back, giving to the bit and the clam down cue. 

Make a Lesson Plan!
Follow the same progressions as you did when you first mounted your horse with the saddle on. Do progressions of sack out where your eventually will be hanging on your horse's neck, etc, so the horse gets used to pressure on him (this should have been done before first mounting, but review it some more). You can stand on a mounting block and gradually apply your body pressure to the horse, little by little until you are mounted, all the while keeping the near rein with some slack out for control if you need it. Eventually work to getting on. Get on and off, staying on a little longer each time if your horse does not show any negative reactions. If you see any negative reactions, evaluate the situation and problem solve - you may need more sack out work, more round pen work, etc.

 Additional Important Points:

 

 


Question #2: Come to You - at faster speeds

Question or Description of Concern:
"In the round pen my horse has progressed to the point where she will come to me when kissed to and is calm doing this. She will follow me around the pen and is focused on my next request. I ask her to trot around the pen and come to me at a trot. She will stop and walk to me each time. I am also kissing to her with more enthusiasm and speed but she will not approach me at any faster than a walk. I have sent her out to trot around the rail until she gets tired enough that she seems to be searching for the right answer ,but she will not approach me at a trot. I have had a second handler encourage her from behind (at a safe distance) and that works until I try it without the help of the second handler. "

Ground Control Lessons Horse has been Exposed To:
round pen basics, sacking out process, come to me, no contact leading, spook control, head down cue, yield to pressure

Answer:

The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

I'm glad you addressed this area of the Come to You Lesson. You have reached a normal performance level from your horse with the Come to You work.

With the above description, I would like to caution you about sending the horse around until she gets tired, searching for the right answer. Although in principle, there are times when you add a few trips around the pen to get the horse to think about something, I think this is not when you will need to do that. Try to conserve as much of the horse's energy during any training session. 

Getting your horse to trot to you and eventually canter to you may take a long time for some horses. This part of the Come to You lesson is one where you can expect to work on it for 2 to 3 weeks. This may seem unbalanced, time wise, if it only took you one lesson to get the horse to walk to you, but it isn't. Getting the horse to trot to you takes a lot longer than getting her to walk to you. (Is she walking all the way to you? If not, keep working on asking the hip to move forward and finish coming all the way to you.) 

A few steps to the lesson (you may already be doing this): After your horse knows how to walk to you, send the horse off at a trot (with energy). Ask the horse to come to you at the trot. When the horse starts to turn in toward you, look for that ONE trotting step toward you. If you see this, you are on your way. Continue to send your horse off and look for that ONE trotting step toward you when you ask her to come to you. See if the horse will trot TWO steps toward you, etc., etc. Remember - get the feet to move, get the feet to move consistently, get the feet to move in the direction you want them to move.

Now, this is what is happening to you - the horse will trot on the fence, turn, come to you and walk toward you. You need to be careful at this stage that you are at and not confuse the horse by sending her out too quickly, telling her "no, you are supposed to trot to me." She will think that the come to you cue is not the come to you cue anymore. Make sure that when you ask her to come to you, that she is solid with the cue. Keep asking over and over again, sending her off at the trot. Ask her to trot for different distances on the fence, but not too long between each request. Ask her to come to you from different places from the pen. Give her breaks. 

The most important part of the answer is this - this is one lesson that may need more time than other lessons. Although the demo's at the clinics appear that you can get quick results with the come to you lesson, this one actually needs practice over many sessions. As I stated above, it may take 2 to 3 weeks of consistent practice. My horse's did not come to me at the trot or canter until they had repeated practice over many sessions.

The more you practice this even if the horse walks to you, the more you will be able to refine your cue to come to you. You are actually talking to the hip even when you are standing in front of the horse. You are saying "hip, come to me". Later this is very important, because you will be asking the horse to come to you when you are standing in front of him.

Another tip: Every time you work with this lesson, make sure that you send the horse off for the next repetition. You may find that a pattern develops such as - trot on the fence, come to me, go away and trot, come to me, go away and trot, etc., etc. What happens with this is that the horse will anticipate you sending her off and take off before you ask. To avoid this, change you pattern. Send the horse off, ask for come to you, pet the horse, pick up a foot, walk away, ask for the horse to go to the fence. Now you don't need to do that every time but, vary what you do, every couple of requests so that your horse waits for the proper cue to go back out to the fence again. 

Keep the energy level up when the horse is on the fence. Give the lesson time and practice often (but not for long periods of time). Once you have given this lesson lots of time (I can not tell you what is enough), you may send the horse away for walking to you on occasion, as if you were to say " I want a trot". Do this quickly and do this sparingly so that you do not confuse the come to you cue. 

Give your horse lots of breaks because you want as much physical energy as well as mental energy. Do not get discouraged, hang with it. You can give yourself lots of credit because you are in a problem solving mode. It is so important that you do this. You seem to have good attention to detail. Keep up the good work!

 

 


Question #3: Trouble with Outside Turns

 Question or Description of Concern:
"I cannot get some horses to do the outside turn in the round pen. Inside turns done just perfect but the outside turn doesn't happen, or it will only turn to the outside going to the right but not the left.  If I catch him and send him back he just circles and doesn't understand, I could do this for hours and he still won't do an outside turn. It is just confusing him, so I bring him back to the inside turn.  I broke it down on the lead rope and started to teach him to turn to the outside when I step in towards his nose and this works but as soon as you put him back on the rail he will only do an inside turn.???  Also the manual doesn't cover how to stop the horse once mounted or how to get the horse to move? It says that is in another publication. I have spent hundreds of dollars on your videos and books and think these things should be addressed for free." 

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:
"Can't get very far in the round pen if you can't get the outside turn.  So yes, they will do the fist eight steps just fine."

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

It is common for the cue for the outside turn to be confusing to the horse at first because he has probably not yet learned that you will be asking more things from him. Up to this point in the training, he has become comfortable with you asking him to go forward in the round pen. Then teaching the inside turn is the next big step in the communication process and once taught is a great accomplishment. The horse is only thinking “go forward” and “inside turn” and now you are going to ask something else. Sometimes, they are not usually willing to accept change. Little do they know that this process has only just begun!

The round pen lesson is so important because this is one place where you can establish control. So when things do not go right early on, it gets frustrating for the handler. If you are having trouble getting the horse to do an outside turn, I would first recommend that you are not in a hurry to go to the outside turn until your horse does the following:

• Get the horse to go consistently to the left and right at the speed you choose - walk, trot, canter. You want the horse comfortable with traveling around the pen and not running away from you. Some horses are fearful in the early stages and need the opportunity to develop a comfort level with the first 5 steps of the lesson. It is usually the fearful or unsure horse that will spin around to the inside with the blink of an eye, too fast for you to catch and send back the other way (when you do not want the inside turn). Also be aware that some horses in their mind are running over the top of you (even at a distance away) where you cannot get control of the nose to go in the direction you want.

• Once you have taught the inside turn, take lots of time with it. Make sure that you work the steps through with the Advance Inside Turns section. Again you want the inside turns where you request them and the speed that you want them. In this case, for the horse that is having difficulty with the outside turn, it would be extremely beneficial for the horse to be doing inside turns one right after another at the walk as mentioned in Lesson 1A. This way you have great control over every step he takes as he does the inside turns.

One thing to remember is that you perfect one small step you will benefit in at least 10 other areas of training. The Advanced Inside Turn Lesson will help you to get your outside turn because you will have taught your horse to step where you want him to in a controlled manner.

Now to address the Outside Turn. One of the great things that this handler did was to try to break down the lesson into smaller steps. It is so important that you start to problem solve your situation because you will come across so many different circumstances and situations with individual horses. Section 1 pages 36 - 41 (Problem Solving - What If?) will help you through these situations. On page 37, #8 refers to writing the easiest skill that is needed in reaching your goal. One easy step that this handler chose was to put a halter on and work up close to the horse. Although this may not be an option for every horse handler, is it for this person. This is a great place to start. Page 37, #9 says - state the last step of your goal - the outside turn. The next part of the lesson plan would be to write all in between steps in reaching your goal, pages 38 - 40. This is not the easy part, but with practice becomes easier. This handler worked at a close range then went back to the round pen. I would recommend that some intermediary steps be put in between.

First lets look at working up close. "I broke it down on the lead rope...he will only do an inside turn." I am going to suggest that the close up work of turning the nose away be worked more and in many different (safe) locations. I am also going to refer you to Lesson 7 or 8 - the outside turn part and Lesson 19, step 10. It sounds like the handler is doing these things. When your horse is responding to you walking at his nose in different locations then you are ready to move on. This may take many hours of practice. Your horse should be very responsive and move away with ease.

There are several ways to go from here. The key is to always keep yourself safe and never in kicking range of the horse. Once you start to move away from the shoulder area you are leaving the safety zone. So keep in mind that your position is critical, especially with horse’s that are new to the round pen.

When your horse is comfortable with you turning him to the outside with halter and lead rope, I would then go to the fence of the round pen. Walk him forward, face his nose and walk at his nose for an outside turn leaving enough room by the fence for the turn. I would do at least 100 repetitions of this - to the left and right. Get him used to turning toward the fence. You are asking the nose to move away as well as the shoulders to move away. The horse needs to move both the nose and the shoulders when asked to do so. Stay with this until you can ask him for an outside turn and not touch him when asking – just walking at the nose will cue him to step away. It would be very helpful to also use the “head down cue” as you are leading so that when you ask for the turn the horse doesn’t have the option to put his head up over yours to avoid moving away from you.

Next, without lead rope attached I would ask the horse to go forward as you have typically done in the round pen steps but get closer and at an angle that is more toward the tail but not directly behind the horse. Make an obvious change in your positioning compared to the cue for the inside turn. Do not get in kicking range. Walk toward the fence at an angle that will tell the nose to slow down and turn away. The first step is to get the horse to slow down. You will try to stay closer so you have more time to react if he starts the inside turn to send him back. Many times horses will be able to spin around easier if you are more to his side and far away, giving him the turning room. At this point you will treat the wrong way turn the same as you did the when you taught the inside turn. Every time the horse turns to the inside when you want an outside turn, ask immediately for another inside turn and send him back in the same direction immediately. Then ask him to try again. Do this over and over again. Say "no, that wasn't the right answer". He has to figure out the right answer. Your position has a lot to do with it because you need to talk to the nose to turn away. You will have to experiment with your positioning to get the horse to move the nose away from you. Speed of the horse is important. If he is racing around you will have a difficult time. That is why I mentioned the previous suggestions. Also, look for opportunities for asking for the outside turn. This can be when his nose is a little more away from the fence, giving him more room to turn to the outside. Or when he has slowed down a great deal and you are in a good position to ask him to step away from you. These are times when you want to capitalize on your opportunities until you are able to consistently teach your cue to turn to the outside.  

I cannot guarantee that everyone will be able to do this. It does take a fair amount of coordination and timing is essential. Although there are other solutions to this problem, I hope that this will help you to generate your ideas as well, depending on your situation.

Second concern mentioned:
This manual is geared to groundwork. Lessons 26, 27 and 28 will start get you on your horse. It is important that your horse go through all the groundwork before you decide to get on (this is stated).

How do you get your horse to stop for the first time? Your horse must be well skilled with Lesson 25. Other reference to getting your horse to stop are in: Lesson 25 page 25.2 (Overview); Lesson 25 page 25.8 and Lesson 26 page 26.2 (Additional Important Points), page 26.6, step 19 and 26.8 (What if section).

It is very much appreciated that you have invested in the John Lyons’ products but unfortunately the beginning lessons in the next riding manual will not be offered for free. Please see the Perfect Horse magazine January 2000 edition, page 3 for an introductory look at how to get your horse to "go forward" using the leg cue. Check other Perfect Horse issues for other concerns that you have concerning riding and training issues.

 
 
 

 


Question #4: Repetitions – How many?
Question or Description of Concern: "1,000s of repetitions to teach the horse. I'm going to start teaching the give spots on my horse and my concern is as follows. I have been warned by other trainers not to "drill" the horse or pester the horse with endless repetitions. Once the horse does it, they say you should stop because he might get confused and think he's doing it wrong if you keep asking the same thing. And how can I distinguish between the horse not doing it because he doesn't know it yet, or because he's getting drilled to death and bored and confused, or because it's a difficult spot, perhaps of resistance, that I need to work through?'

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:
'Round pen work. leading; backing up; riding in walk and asking for trot. giving etc.'

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

When this question is asked, it may be because often times it is difficult to see the "light at the end of the tunnel." How do all the repetitions from the giving exercises get me the final product that I am looking for? The Ground Control Manual does not provide riding exercises to show you how to get the responsive, collected and fluid moving horse. What the Ground Control Manual will do is to build the foundation so that when you do get on your horse's back you will (in most cases) quickly be able to apply the same concepts and get the results you are looking for - the responsive, collected and fluid moving horse. 

Please review the following chapters in the Ground Control Manual again. These chapters explain the importance of repetitions and the training principles that apply to the training technique: 

Now lets address you concerns, sentence by sentence:

'I'm going to start teaching the give spots on my horse and my concern is as follows. I have been warned by other trainers ...

It is wise to listen to other people. You make the final decision as to whether you will use the JL training program, someone else's or a combination.

The JL training program is a solid training program, one that is in constant evaluation for improvement. No one should ever stop looking for a better or an easier way to teach their horse. John’s experience has been that after training thousands of horses, it is the horse that tell you if you are communicating properly, not other trainers.

...not to "drill" the horse or pester the horse with endless repetitions. 

"Drill"? - The JL training exercises are not considered as a drilling situation. JL exercises are teaching sessions, always asking the horse to be light and responsive. Doing any exercise over and over again is not a drill when you are looking for a specific answer from the horse. Who has the perfect horse? What horse does it all and does not need any more fine tuning? Is there one out there? "Pester" implies that you are bothering the horse. Your horse is supposed to work for you. If he is bothered by it, he needs to learn to deal with it.

"Endless repetitions" seems to imply that some day your horse should know everything perfectly and you should never have to remind him to do things right again. Will your horse ever make a mistake again in his life and will you have to correct him when he does? You will be always teaching and re-teaching your horse for the rest of his life. Some skills will only need a brush up, maybe a 5 second correction will get you a year of correct performance - it all depends on how well it was taught in the first place.  

Once the horse does it, 

Does this mean "once"? How many times does the horse have to show you the correct performance before he has it? This is also explained throughout the manual. There are many places in the lessons where you need to practice what you are doing in different locations and at different speeds because this will change the excitement level. When your horse can do what you want him to in the least excitable environment, you gradually increase the excitement level. When the horse can do what you want with more excitement, then he probably has it. The only problem is that you need to be ready for a situation that you have not practiced, one with more excitement than the last. 

they say you should stop because he might get confused and think he's doing it wrong if you keep asking the same thing. 

All horse will be confused at one time or another, especially when you are learning how to teach and he is trying to learn what you are teaching. Those that are learning the JL technique (or anyone's method) for the first time will make lots of mistakes, therefore confusing the horse. Expect this to happen, do your best to work through this. It is obvious that you do not want to do this. Lots of prior research will help to limit the confusion. 

The JL technique is a 'pressure and release of pressure' method. Everything is taught in progressions, starting with the simplest request, to avoid confusion. Have a very clear reward system for your horse - like the release of pressure. Once the horse learns this basic language, confusion is only a matter of the horse searching for options to get the release. It is a very simple concept and one that you will not fully understand until you put it to practice (days, weeks or months of practice). There is nothing wrong with confusion or the horse thinking he is doing it wrong. The problem comes in if you allow the horse to be constantly confused and do not problem solve to make your signals clear. If the horse thinks he is doing it wrong, there is not much you can do about that. What you can do is give him the reward when he does it correctly or even partially correct until you can get the desired response (again explained in the manual) and make your signals clear.

And how can I distinguish between the horse not doing it because he doesn't know it yet, 

If he knows it, he will do it. If you have practiced enough repetitions, he will do it 95% of the time you ask. See page 45 on "counting" and "100% of the time". Professional athletes practice the basics over and over again. Why do we think our horse's should have it in less time. Do horse's have the same capability to learn as we do? Horse's take many repetitions to develop a habit pattern.

or because he's getting drilled to death and bored and confused, 

See above comments on "drill", "bored" and "confused".

or because it's a difficult spot, perhaps of resistance, that I need to work through?'

You will come across times when your horse will act like he knows it and then falls apart. See page 44, "the Learning Cycle". The learning cycle is what has been experienced all horses that go through proper training. The only difference is that some horses hang in one part of the cycle longer than others.

Write down your goals for your horse. Know where you are heading and what it is supposed to look like. The JL training program has taken many years to develop. Do not expect to fully understand every aspect of it until you have studied and practiced for months, even years. After reading the introduction and seeing some of the JL techniques in action, it is up to you to decide whether or not you trust the methods and want to make the commitment to learn them. 

There are three ways that you can approach the JL program:

1) Follow the lessons in sequence and watch things develop. As you go, you will see how different concepts fall in place.

2) Study the entire book, watch JL videos, read all other available material then go to Step 1 above.

3) Participate in clinics, symposiums or the certification program and then go the step 1 above. 

Most important, you must know what it is you want your horse to do. If you do not have a plan then you cannot set up the path you want to take. The manual is designed to get you through the JL program step by step, a starting path to your goal.

Good Luck!

 
 
 

 


Question #5: “Subtle Aggression”

Question or Description of Concern:
"My 1 year old filly (Hope) is showing signs of subtle aggression. She has not tried to hurt me, but pins her ears back and she has nibbled. How do I show her that I am at the top of the pecking order? I read where lots of outside turns help with aggression, but was wondering if there is anything else I could do as well.

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:
None. I’ve only had her a week. I want to start Round Pen Basics but we have a lot of rain and the pen is slippery.

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

First and foremost when dealing with a new horse (or any horse for that matter) your safety is the first concern. Know how you are going to keep yourself safe if the horse decides to bite, strike or kick. Youngsters that have not been handled or had proper handling, may not know that using their mouth, front or hind legs is not acceptable. They may have been using them in play or defense when with their pasture mates or with other handlers. Be aware that these situations may occur and you need to know how to have control in advance.

With this horse (Hope) there are many ways to handle her subtle aggression. "Subtle" is a relative term and actually may not be “subtle” at all.  Here are some suggestions to help solve your problem:

1) Starting with Round Pen Basics is a good place to start, but is not the only thing that you can do. Once you start the RPB’s your horse will learn that you will be asking lots of questions and expecting the horse to respond, putting you in control. You can start this method of training without the round pen.

2) Read Lesson A - No More Biting so that you know what your options are. Depending on your situation, you may not want to choose the "3 Second" rule. Study the different ways to handle the biting horse.

3) Your horse must get used to you being in charge. Every time you are around your horse, you need to give a cue and the horse is expected to respond. Since you are just starting out, this can be easily done in the horse’s immediate surroundings but a safe enclosure is needed (stall or paddock - not a wire fence; keep at a safe distance when working in a smaller area). Here you can apply round pen basics concepts by asking the horse to move in certain directions. (See Lesson 1 and the What If... section in Lesson 1; See Lesson F - Face First in the Stall) For now, move your horse to the left or right (do not be concerned with inside or outside turns). Here you will start to establish control. You can also work on having the horse turn and face you and then work on the steps of approaching and walking away. At this point if you see any aggression, you can send the horse away or ask her to move to discourage the thought of aggression.

4) If the horse is halter broke (I’m assuming she is) then you can do some work with the halter on, if you feel safe doing so. Stay close to her shoulder to avoid any kicking or striking. Have your hand close to the halter to avoid getting bitten. Here are some excellent exercises that you can do with just the halter and lead rope:

Combine the above lessons in #3 (asking your horse to move away and change directions) with Lesson J - Move to Touch. Get your horse to move away from you (yield to pressure) when you push your hand on the nose, neck, shoulder, etc. Usually the horse will lean into your pressure, so don’t be afraid to use extra pressure to get the horse to step away. Then when the horse responds, ask with less pressure.

A necessary skill for the horse to have is to be able to accept pressure from the halter and lead rope when you pull on the lead rope. Here is an excellent opportunity to get the horse to yield to pressure from the lead rope. These exercises will benefit the horse in many ways (ex: learning to tie) - Lesson 10 - Head Down Cue, Lesson 12 - Go Forward Cue, Lesson 14 - Yield to Pressure

After you work with these in your stall or small paddock area you then can do the following - Lesson 2 - Hand Sack Out, Lesson D - No More Kicking Part II (training whip sack out), Lesson 15 - Picking Up Feet

After your horse accepts pressure from the lead rope, you can consider doing some of the exercises with a bridle and full cheek snaffle bit. You will have to modify the order of the lessons that are in the Training Manual to meet your needs. Remember not to work the youngster too hard. Modify the length of the training sessions so that the horse stays safe.

 
 
 

 


Question #6: “Giving to the Bit”

Question or Description of Concern:
"6 yr old Appendix Qtr horse raised on track for 3 years, in pasture 1 yr and being "ridden" or "trained" in basic dressage for a year does not give to bit so decided to start over and use John Lyons ground manual. Started with baby gives. Taz puts his nose to the ground and chew on the bit. What do I do when that happens? He chews on the bit while riding most of the time and does stretch his jaw alot. However, have had his teeth and jaw examined and he is fine. No physical problem."  

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:
"just started with baby gives"

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

One thing to consider is that this horse is most likely conditioned to lean on the bit from his track experience. So you will have to undo this response. It will take longer for your horse to get used to giving to the bit because you will have to undo previous training. When you teach the horse to give to the bit, you will have to hold the rein firm and stay consistent with your cue. Watch for the horse to give in the direction you want (Spot 1). If he is always pulling or "rooting" when you take the slack out and you seem to be getting nowhere after a long time, then look for the horse to stop pulling or "rooting" before you release the rein. You may not get a give, but you will start to get him to stop pulling. The progression would be:

1) take the slack out, hold firm, get less pull to the ground and then give the release;
2) take the slack out, hold firm, no pull to the ground and give him the release:
3) take the slack out, hold firm, when the horse gives to the bit (even a fraction of an inch) release. 

The key is to anchor your hand to the saddle and do not let the horse pull the rein out of your hand. Because this horse pulls you may have to put more pressure on the bit than recommended in the manual - turn the heat up a little. Practice this over and over again - work both sides.

The chewing part is not to be too concerned with. It was good to get the horse vetted to check for mouth problems. For now ignore the chewing and watch for Spot 1 to give. You are trying to teach a new cue. The chewing could be from nervousness, past practice, or not yet understanding the cue. Typically, the horse will first reduce and eventually stop chewing after you have practiced many repetitions. 

Again be patient and stick with lots of repetitions. You are trying to get the horse to respond a brand new way to the bit.

 
 
 

 


Question #7: General Control with a Three Year Old

Question or Description of Concern:
"I bought a quarter horse mare a month ago. She will be 3 in a couple of days.  She was *supposedly* halter broke when I got her, although I didn't feel like I was in control of her at all. She would toss her head, rub her head on me, speed up, etc. Especially when I attempted to turn right. The first time I got her out to the round pen she attempted to run through my request to change directions many times. But I have spent a lot of time (several days of about 2 hours each), working on outside turns only. She now does them without a fuss. But when I ask her to go fast to the left she tosses her head. I did not do many inside turns in a row, since she is showing signs of aggression. The "Begin the Sack Out Process" lesson went well - she is very friendly. I have to lead her to and from the round pen, so I decided that teaching her how to lead as soon as possible was a must so I went there next.  the next day I put the burlap sack on and worked with her for 2 hours, like the lesson suggests. She was doing okay, although when I did ask for a "give", sometimes she'd eat grass and ignore the pull of the rope for several minutes. I supposed this is normal at first, as I had not told her to NOT eat grass?  When this happens should I, as I have been doing, just keep the gentle pressure steady and wait for to 'give'? It seems to me that I may be teaching her to ignore the cue. Yesterday I put the burlap sack and halter on again, to continue working on the give. She actually jumped all over and kicked out a couple times. I think it was clear to her what I wanted her to do. I knew that I was not getting anywhere, so I led her to the round pen (she attempted to run several times, and she was not listening to me). Once in the round pen I asked for another 50 or so outside turns. Next, to hopefully help with leading to the right, when standing on her left side, I put the rope on the right of her and diagonally over her back.  I would pull on the rope, and we turned circles to the right for a while. It was then getting dark, so I had to get her back to the pen. Again, on the way back to the pen, she acted up and did not listen to me. I would like to know if there is any other thing I should do. The outside turns help for a while, but not for long. I would think that by now that she would realize that I am in charge of what she does and listens to me. I hope that I have made myself clear. I do not know what to do next, besides even more outside turns. 

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:

Round Pen Basics, Begin Sack Out Process, Leading

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

I bought a quarter horse mare a month ago. She will be 3 in a couple of days.  She was *supposedly* halter broke when I got her, although I didn't feel like I was in control of her at all. 

It is good that you picked up on the aggression right away. Your horse probably has not been taught any specific cues yet, or at least has not been made to practice them very much. It is a matter of opinion what "halter broke" means. Some people call horses halter broke if they have had a halter on their head. This does not mean that the horse knows how to respond to pressure from the halter, lead, etc. 

She would toss her head, rub her head on me, speed up, etc. Especially when I attempted to turn right.

Again she has not been taught any cues or has been getting away with bad habits. Until you are able to teach her the proper cues, you need to keep her out of your space. This kind of behavior can get you hurt. The idea is to keep her positioned so that she can do this to you, but if she gets into your space apply pressure to the nose, face, neck, repeatedly, and release the pressure after you get her to move away. Do so over and over again.

 The first time I got her out to the round pen she attempted to run through my request to change directions many times. 

This is normal. Since the round pen cues are new to her and she has always been in control, most horses respond in this manner. See Round Pen lesson for suggestions with this.

But I have spent a lot of time (several days of about 2 hours each), working on outside turns only. She now does them without a fuss.

This is great! Even though it seems like it took a long time, you must work on each step of the lesson until the horse does it well. The horse will tell you when she has learned it and you can then move on from there.

But when I ask her to go fast to the left she tosses her head. 

This could mean a few things. It could mean that she is showing aggressive tendencies, not wanting to be told what to do, that she is frustrated or not understanding. Speed adds to the excitement level. That is where the head tossing may come in. I would ignore the head tossing if she is not showing obvious signs of aggression. If there is aggression, outside turns with some added speed may help to show her who is in control. Ask often so she does not have the opportunity to think aggressive thoughts. It is helpful to concentrate on the movement you want and not any additional movements that the horse is doing. Ex: You want the horse to go left in the round pen, turn to the outside at the gate, travel right and turn outside at the gate, repeat. If the horse is tossing her head or looking outside the pen, concentrate only on the body movement. Eventually the head tossing should pass and the horse's attention should come inward. 

I did not do many inside turns in a row, since she is showing signs of aggression. 

Before you get into the inside turns, work on outside turns with a purpose. Get the outside turns when and where you want them (one of the round pen steps). Also, work on the quality of the outside turn - smooth, not rushed, etc. If you have done enough outside turns that would show you that she is not have aggressive tendencies, then you can start inside turn work. This is your call. There is really no way for me to determine when you are ready to try this.

The "Begin the Sack Out Process" lesson went well - she is very friendly. 

This is very promising. Spooky horse's take a long time even with this lesson (days or even months).

I have to lead her to and from the round pen, so I decided that teaching her how to lead as soon as possible was a must so I went there next.  The next day I put the burlap sack on and worked with her for 2 hours, like the lesson suggests. 

This is good, sounds like a reasonable step for her. The lesson "Teaching the Young/Older Horse to Lead" would be good here. This lesson keeps you at a safe distance at first, teaches 'yield to pressure' and other great things at first.

She was doing okay, although when I did ask for a "give", sometimes she'd eat grass and ignore the pull of the rope for several minutes. I supposed this is normal at first, as I had not told her to NOT eat grass?  When this happens should I, as I have been doing, just keep the gentle pressure steady and wait for to 'give'? It seems to me that I may be teaching her to ignore the cue. 

Well, the premise behind a gentle pull on the rope is to get them to respond on the least amount of pressure possible. Also, when you first apply gentle pressure you are giving the horse a chance to feel the cue little by little so they do not react violently to the pull. In your case, if she is accustomed to the pull of the rope I would pull her mouth off the ground. Use as much pressure as needed to get her to respond to your cue, without her showing any adverse reactions such as: becoming startled from your pull, bolting, rearing, etc. I would keep her nose off the ground and not let her eat.

Yesterday I put the burlap sack and halter on again, to continue working on the give. She actually jumped all over and kicked out a couple times. I think it was clear to her what I wanted her to do. 

Well I'm not sure what you are saying here but when you work on Yield to Pressure all you want to do is to get her to follow the pull and turn and face the direction of pull. (As long as you are safe ignore the kicking and get her to turn and face you). If you think the kicking is an act of aggression, you will want to send a message that this is not okay and ask the hip to step over with more energy from you, then send her off with speed and ask her to respond to the pull from the rope again.

When working with the burlap sack start from a stand still if the horse stands on her own. Start to apply pressure to get her used to the feel. Then ask her to move off in the round pen. Before she gets any speed up, ask her to turn and face. Apply your pressure gently, trying to not get any adverse reactions and get her to slow down, yield slightly to pressure and eventually turn and face you when feeling the pressure. Start gradually and slowly add more and more pressure. Later if the kicking is a problem you can pull on her harder and quicker to send a strong message that kicking is not okay.

I knew that I was not getting anywhere, so I led her to the round pen (she attempted to run several times, and she was not listening to me). 

You should consider starting bridle work. You have worked on “Yield to Pressure” so it is a normal progression to put a full cheek bit or similar type bit in her mouth. Take her through the Bridling Lesson, Yield to Pressure Lesson, Giving to the Bit Lessons – Spot 1 – 6, etc. so that she will respond to the pressure on her mouth as soon as possible. Then I would teach her the "head down cue" with the bridle on - Lesson 10. Then you can repeatedly ask her to lower head over and over again as you lead her. This will keep her thinking about something other than dancing on the line. This is a valuable lesson to learn early on. This is also taught with the halter on, but teach it with the bridle first. Teach this is the stall, if you feel safe doing so.

Once in the round pen I asked for another 50 or so outside turns. Next, to hopefully help with leading to the right, when standing on her left side, I put the rope on the right of her and diagonally over her back.  I would pull on the rope, and we turned circles to the right for a while.

Well, if I understand this you were giving her a pull signal that made her nose turn to the right and then she would walk to the right. Again, you are basically asking her to follow the pull of the pressure. This is fine. 

 It was then getting dark, so I had to get her back to the pen. Again, on the way back to the pen, she acted up and did not listen to me. 

The bridle and head down cue will help greatly here. When she learns this, do not let her put her head (let's say) higher than your elbows. As you walk her, ask "head down, head down, head down...." over and over again. If she dives for grass, take enough slack out of the rein to keep her head off the ground.

I would like to know if there is any other thing I should do. The outside turns help for a while, but not for long. 

Again, outside turns with a purpose, as mentioned above.

I would think that by now that she would realize that I am in charge of what she does and listens to me. 

This takes a long time and you really need to get your horse to understand a lot more cues or at least that you are extremely consistent with the few that you are going to teach now.

I hope that I have made myself clear. I do not know what to do next, besides even more outside turns. 

Keep yourself safe. Only go on to something new when you think you can. Study the steps of any new lesson first. Try to understand the lesson as well as you possibly can. Young unbroke stock can be so unpredictable. Take your time. Do not hesitate to seek professional help in order to keep yourself safe.

After you have done Round Pen Basics, Sack Out Lesson, Bridling, Head Down Cue and Yield to Pressure Go to the H/S/S lesson - #25. Then there are lots more lessons to cover that are in the manual. Our job is never done, is it? Good Luck!

 
 
 

 


Question #8: Spooky Horse – Rider Low Confidence”

Question or Description of Concern:
"I have a 17 yr old TB gelding that has impeccable ground manners and is a very willing horse.  I just got him about two months ago as a starter horse after 15 years of not doing much riding.  The first week I got him he was spooked by someone who suddenly appeared out of the bushes by our riding ring. He did a quick spin/bolt and I fell off him, luckily we were only walking. Since then I am apprehensive about his spooking, esp. when it is windy. He does not appear to spook at specific objects, he just does a mini-bolt for example, if he hears a small sound.  I have ridden him by roads and on trails and he is not what I would call a nervous horse.  I can take his mind off spooking by doing circles but then it seems that I am locked into riding in one specific area.  How can I build confidence in myself so that I can enjoy him more? I am afraid that if I fall off of him again when he spooks that I will lose the nerve to ride him at all, which would be a shame because I love this horse and he really is a nice horse."

Ground Control Lessons Horse Exposed To:
"starting Baby Give"

Answer:
The answers to the FAQ's are suggestions to help you problem solve - you make the final decision as to whether you are going to work with your horse.

"I have a 17 yr old TB gelding that has impeccable ground manners and is a very willing horse.  I just got him about two months ago as a starter horse after 15 years of not doing much riding.  

Since you have been away from horses for a while, I recommend that you spend a great deal of time doing ground exercises. I say this for a couple of reasons. First, it is important to understand that "the horse you lead is the horse you ride". You must have confidence as well as control of your horse from the ground first. Even though this horse is seasoned, you really need to find out what he knows and how well you can control him from the ground. The horse will have more "respect" for you if he knows that you can control him on the ground. Next, once you can handle your horse from the ground, often times you apply the same handling principles on the horse's back. Your riding confidence will improve greatly if your horse is familiar with your cues and you have practiced them from the ground first. 

To start with do the following lessons with your horse. The lessons that I would make sure that he knows are Lesson 10 – “Head Down Cue”, Lesson 12 - "Go Forward" cue; Lessons 13, 16 and 22. These lessons will show you how responsive the horse is to the bit. I would next do Lesson 25 – “Hip, Shoulder, Shoulder”. Also, another very helpful lesson is Lesson 28. Being able to control your horse’s head elevation when riding is extremely helpful.

The first week I got him he was spooked by someone who suddenly appeared out of the bushes by our riding ring. He did a quick spin/bolt and I fell off him, luckily we were only walking. Since then I am apprehensive about his spooking, esp. when it is windy. He does not appear to spook at specific objects, he just does a mini-bolt for example, if he hears a small sound.  I have ridden him by roads and on trails and he is not what I would call a nervous horse.  

You can never ask a horse not to be afraid of things that are normal and natural in his surroundings. What you can do is teach your horse what to do when he is afraid. You really want your horse not to bolt when he is startled. Depending on how thorough you want to be - a good way to help with this problem is to do Lesson 5 - "Spook in Place". This will help to condition his response to a new one and that is not to bolt.  You will need to take your horse through Lesson 1 "Round Pen Basics" if you want to teach him the way it is written in the manual. 

After you have done the spook work from the ground, you need to start to do bridle work on the ground. The lesson that you want to do is Lesson 25 - "Connect the Rein to the Hip Lesson". When a horse bolts, you want the forward movement to stop as fast as you can. You need to stop his forward movement. Using one rein to disengage the hip will stop forward movement. You need to practice this lesson on the ground then take it to the saddle. Unfortunately, this will not stop your horse from spooking but can help you gain control when he does spook.

I can take his mind off spooking by doing circles but then it seems that I am locked into riding in one specific area.  

Circles are commonly used but are only a band-aide. It is not enough of an exercise to change the spooking behavior or to get the horse's mind more on the rider's requests. I would recommend that you start with the "giving to the bit" process on horse back. Lesson 13, 16, 22 are excellent exercises to do to keep your horse concentrating on you and not his surroundings. Lesson 28 as well - Calm Down Cue.

How can I build confidence in myself so that I can enjoy him more? 

To build your confidence you need to have a plan that you know will work for you. This plan includes consistent cues that you have practiced with your horse. Your problem is one that will take some work, probably not a big deal but none-the-less one that needs attention, for your safety. Spend time studying the JL techniques then try to put them to practice if you feel safe doing so.

I am afraid that if I fall off of him again when he spooks that I will lose the nerve to ride him at all, which would be a shame because I love this horse and he really is a nice horse.

What would be a worse, is that you get hurt (I guess that goes without saying). Ride where you can and stay safe for now. Do the suggested lessons in a safe enclosed area. You always want to teach your horse in the least distracting area first before you go to new places. Work the ground lesson one at a time. "Old" horses can learn new tricks - the learning never stops.

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